Saturday 13 June 2015

Mars And Stars

Comparing Poul Anderson with SM Stirling led to discussing Stirling's Mars novel, In The Courts Of The Crimson Kings. This led to discussing other science fictional treatments of Mars which in turn led to discussing other planets, the Solar System, the galaxy, the universe and the end of the universe. The universe and its end led back to earlier comparisons of Anderson with James Blish who in fact described Anderson's Tau Zero as the ultimate hard sf novel.

Tau Zero is:

sf because it is about an interstellar spaceship;
hard sf because its plot is fully consistent with the relativity theory and cosmology that were accepted when it was written;
a novel because it is a long prose narrative;
ultimate because it shows human beings surviving and human society continuing against the background of the universe.

This recalls CS Lewis' characterization of John Milton's Paradise Lost as the ultimate epic (a long narrative heroic poem):

Homer's epics were Primary because they showed incidents during the heroic age;
Virgil's epic was Secondary because it recounted a historical turning point, the founding of Rome;
Milton's epic is ultimate because it recounts Biblical history from before the Creation until after Armageddon.

Finally, I am glad of the increase in scientific knowledge and prefer to live in Anderson's universe.

7 comments:

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I have to admit I did not like John Milton's PARADISE LOST. The topic was certainly epic and touched on ultimate matters, but I found Milton's POETRY to be ponderous, heavy, and often boring, alas. It was a struggle for me to get thru PARADISE LOST. My loss, I'm sure!

And one epic poem I think you could have mentioned was Dante's DIVINE COMEDY. That too was about transcendent and ultimate ideas. And, unlike PL, I loved the DIVINE COMEDY. It was FAR more of a page turner than was PL. My view is that, frankly, Dante was a better poet than was Milton. I even have the DIVINE COMEDY in three different translations: those by John Ciardi, Allen Mandelbaum, and Dorothy L. Sayers.

And just to drag in a possible connection with Poul Anderson, I would suggest that Anderson's description of the "hell universe" in OPERATION CHAOS owns something to Dante's description of hell in the INFERNO.

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
There is fine epic poetry in the opening Books but Milton was unable to sustain it.

"Him the Almighty power hurled headlong flaming
From the ethereal sky
with hideous ruin and combustion
Down to bottomless perdition
There to dwell in adamantine chains
And penal fire who durst defy
Th'omnipotent to arms..."
(misquoted from memory. Lines wrong.)
James Blish agreed with you: Dante much better than Milton.
In THE DAY AFTER JUDGMENT, Satan is described as what Dante saw and Milton imagined.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

Oh, certainly! I agee PARADISE LOST has sections of fine epic poetry. But, as you, Milton, unlike Dante, was unable to sustain it. And, as a Catholic, I find Dante's depiction of Satan as vicious, squalid, and miserable far more theologically TRUE than Milton's portrait of Satan as a dark, majestically brooding "archangel ruined."

Dang it! I really need to reread Blish. Esp. his Cities in Flight books and THE DAY AFTER JUDGMENT.

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
Lewis said that Dante's COMEDY shows one soul's journey through the universe whereas PARADISE LOST shows the history of the universe.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

That I had not known! I assume Lewis said that in his book about PARADISE LOST, which I have not read. I think I can see what Lewis meant, from what I remember about PL. And I agree about what he said about the DIVINE COMEDY.

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
Yes, in his A PREFACE TO PARADISE LOST.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

Thanks! While Lewis might not have been as prolific a writer as Poul Anderson he did write enough that most of us are not likely to have read everything he published.

Sean