Saturday 18 June 2016

Historical Names And Dates

Poul Anderson, Hrolf Kraki's Saga (New York,, 1973), pp. xvii-xviii; pp. 74-75.

Anderson's Foreword and his text converge. Some time between 512 and 520 AD, the Gota-King Hugleik fell in battle against the Franks. One of the few Gota to escape from the Franks was Bjovulf/Beowulf. Returning home, he declined the kingship but guided the kingdom. This happened shortly after Hrolf's birth.

"Thus Hrolf flourished two or three decades later." (p. xviii)

Hugleik, Beowulf and Hrolf are historical.

And:

"Saxo places Hadding three generations before Hrolf Kraki."
-Poul Anderson, War Of The Gods (New York, 1999), p. 301.

Hrolf's saga is dated to the mid-sixth century. If we call that 550 and a generation twenty years, then Hadding is dated about 490. However:

"...the tale of Hadding is not properly even a legend. It is a myth." (ibid.)

Since one scholar identified King Hadding with the god Njord, Anderson novelized Hadding as an incarnation of Njord. Anderson's tale of Hadding begins not in the late fifth century but with "...the first war there ever was..." (p. 9) - between the gods.

7 comments:

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I would date any possibly historical King Hadding somewhat earlier, to about AD 460. And some people count a generation as lasting at least 30 or even 40 years.

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
I am unsure how long is meant by "a generation." I thought just long enough for someone to be born, to grow up and to become capable of having children. One teacher at school said about 20 years. More recently, someone suggested 25. I have never heard of 30 or 40.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

The second definition given by THE RANDOM HOUSE DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE defines a "generation" as roughly 30 years, from the birth of two parents to the birth of their children. And I think I came across 40 years as making up a full generation in the Old Testament.

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
I never thought of looking it up in a dictionary. But surely most people have children well before they are 30? Between 20 and 25 seems reasonable. 21 is the traditional birthday for "coming of age."
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I agree, MOST do. But I can see the RANDOM HOUSE DICTIONARY's editors AVERAGING the years of a generation to mean most parents have all or most of their children by age 30.

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
What is your dating of King Hadding based on?
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

Poul Anderson dated King Hrolf to flourishing about 20 or 30 years after the Gota King Hugleik falling in battle against the Franks sometime around AD 512-20. Now if Hrolf was ruling Denmark around AD 550 and a possibly historical King Hadding ruled three generations before then, with 30 years per generation, we get to AD 460.

Of course, I'm assuming Frodhi the Peace-Good was Hadding's son! But somewhere around 460 seems reasonable.

Sean