Tuesday 29 August 2017

Ideas

(I don't like this cover but it is the issue that contained Poul Anderson's "Margin of Profit.")

The previous post moved from a passage in SM Stirling's The Given Sacrifice to a discussion of philosophy. This post continues the discussion of philosophy, then moves to "Margin of Profit."

Philosophy was standing on its head because philosophers, like everyone else, thought that ideas preceded life and action. Materialist philosophers stood philosophy on its feet when they recognized that people had to eat before they could think. How we earn our livings determines how we relate to each other and therefore also determines how we think about society, social values and reality in general. When social labour had produced a (small) surplus and when the priestly elite that administered that surplus had begun to rule the majority whose labour produced the surplus, then it came to be thought that the rulers' ideas, not productive labour, were the driving force of society. This led to more refined forms of idealism, e.g., the belief that the idea of Man, preceding particular men, had existed from eternity in the mind of God or in an ideal realm.

"It is a truism that the structure of a society is basically determined by its technology. Not in an absolute sense - there may be totally different cultures using identical tools - but the tools settle the possibilities: you can't have interstellar trade without spaceships. A race limited to a single planet, possessing a high knowledge of mechanics but with its basic machines of industry and war requiring a large capital investment, will inevitably tend toward collectivism under one name or another. Free enterprise needs elbow room."
-Poul Anderson, "Margin of Profit" IN Anderson, The Van Rijn Method (Riverdale, NY, 2009), pp. 135-173 AT p. 145.

Anderson, or at least his omniscient narrator, agrees that technology basically determines social structure. I have to agree that different cultures can use identical tools. But I think that the nature of the tools limits the range of possible ideas? Anderson refers to "...collectivism under one name or another."

He goes on to list the conditions that make the "exuberent capitalism" (p. 146) of the Polesotechnic League possible:

automation and the mineral wealth of the Solar System make the manufacure of most goods cheap;
small, clean, simple fusion units make energy cheap;
gravitics leads to the hyperdrive, making interstellar exploitation and emigration possible;
interstellar distances and cultural differences prevent political union;
but there is little reason for armed conflict;
the colonies want the luxuries of home;
home wants colonial products;
older civilizations have much to exchange;
imports are cheaper than synthetics or substitutes;
companies compete but must also arbitrate and present a common front to the governments;
governments limited to a few planetary systems cannot control interstellar traders;
they are also bribed and coerced;
the League became a loose supergovernment;
QED.

13 comments:

S.M. Stirling said...

You can have quite different societies with very similar technologies, though.

S.M. Stirling said...

And ideas and beliefs are themselves material things -- because everything a human being does has to start as an electrochemical event within their skulls.

People didn't burn witches because they wanted to steal their stuff (though that happened now and then), they burned witches because they -really believed in witches-.

If you believe that some people are acting to create harm through magic in conspiracy with demons, and if you believe in magic and demons the way we believe in atoms(*), then ferreting them out and killing them makes perfect sense.

It's not irrational in the least; it's a perfectly rational set of actions, though based on erroneous data.

Conversely, between about 1700 and 1740, witch trials ceased throughout the Western world; not because of any material change, but simply because the elites of Western societies stopped believing in malignant witchcraft.

In fact, they became convinced that belief in witchcraft was an embarrassing relic of backwardness, and that such popular beliefs had to be suppressed, or at least kept out of view, lest they be embarrassed before their peers.

Likewise, as has recently been exhaustively demonstrated, the British and then the rest of western Europe and their overseas descendants became convinced that chattel slavery was wrong at the absolute peak of the South Atlantic system's profitability, and abolished first the slave trade and then slavery itself at very considerable expense and trouble (and blood, in some places).

Then they propagandized and pistol-whipped the rest of the world into following suit; nearly everyone else thought they were insane.

S.M. Stirling said...

(*) belief in the supernatural in pre-Enlightenment times wasn't comparable to belief in religion now. It wasn't a matter of wanting to believe, or of finding that it fulfilled emotional needs; it was more like the average person today's belief in science. Most of us can't follow the mathematical or experimental proofs for say, the atomic theory of matter but we accept that the experts can. Even people without any "spiritual" inclinations at all accepted supernaturalism -- it was just the general explanation of how the universe worked.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what is meant by "social labor" somehow producing wealth. Wealth is created when the DEMAND for a person's skills or labor enables him to save more over and above what he needs for the everyday costs of living.

Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,
I agree that wealth is more than is needed for immediate survival. "Social" just stresses that much work is cooperative. When the temples stored food, they were collecting what had been produced by the labour of society as a whole.
Paul.

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,
I think that two interacting factors differentiate humanity as a species: work/labour (changing the environment with hands and brain); cooperation. Without the latter, there would be no language, therefore no symbolic communication internalized as individual thought, no ability to think about anything beyond immediate sense impressions, thus no advance from animality to humanity. The human level of consciousness has been idealized as "soul." By collective labour, we have changed the world. Individuals can accumulate wealth only in a social context.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

Thanks, these comments elucidates what you meant. By and large, I agree with them. Both in how man's ability to change his environment and to cooperate with other humans. And "wealth" makes sense only in a social setting in which it can be USED.

Sean

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Sean,
Also, wealth can only be accumulated in a social context. The selling of goods or services is an inherently social transaction. Someone who owns or invests in a factory accumulates wealth generated by the workers in the factory. It is possible to own, e.g., a Rolls Royce or a private jet only in a society capable of producing such artifacts. Even a man who is stranded on an island and builds a house by his own labour (i) plans the house with thinking abilities that he possesses as a member of a linguistic community; (ii) applies building skills that he has brought with him from civilization. (I would not be able to do it.)
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Kaor, Paul!

I actually wondered if it was possible for a man to be "wealthy" if he was a hermit on a desert island! But, as you said, you need a social setting for wealth to be practical.

And that 30 gram gold coin which was valuable enough to buy a whole farm on the planet Nike in "A Tragedy Of Errors" would make sense only if there were other people on Nike who would value that coin enough to sell a farm for it.

Sean

S.M. Stirling said...

Wealth is not a relationship between people and things, it's a relationship between people mediated through things.

For land to be "mine", for example, implies certain rights of exclusion -- it's not just that I can do what I want with it within broad limits, but that I can exclude you from doing things with it.

And "owning" land in 21st century Britain is an entirely different thing from "holding" it in the same country in 1200 CE. Both involve bundles of rights, but different bundles.

S.M. Stirling said...

Property is a human characteristic. Animals have territories (or groups of social animals do) but this is analogous to political sovereignty, not private property.

paulshackley2017@gmail.com said...

Agree.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Dear Mr. Stirling,

I agree. And among those bundles of rights associated with "holding" land in AD 1200 were the responsibilities going with managing local gov't. Which is not the case today.

Sean