Sunday 15 March 2015

Trust

SM Stirling, "Shikari in Galveston" IN Worlds That Weren't (New York, 2003), pp. 63-148.

I think that the secular bases of morality are as follows:

we were naturally selected to help others either because they bear the same genes or because they might help us in return and we experience this motivation as moral obligation, not as calculating self-interest, which is what it sounds like when expressed in biological terms;

as members of a social species, we have collective interests, like speaking a common language, that transcend a simplistic selfishness-altruism dichotomy.

It follows that lists of commandments and precepts are formulations of an evolved morality, not divine instructions. However, could humanity lose its moral basis?

"When men hunted each other to eat, there could be no trust, and trust was what let even the wildest men work together. Usually man-eaters had no groupings larger than an extended family, and often they barely retained the use of speech and fire. Human beings were not meant to live like that..." (pp. 118-119)

Loss of speech would be loss of humanity. In Olaf Stapledon's Last And First Men, Venerian human beings artificially adapted in haste to colonize Neptune spread across the Neptunian surface but degenerated into animality, one species retaining the custom of gathering in a circle to hear a single individual howl. Later, quadrupeds migrating into an area dense with tall plants began to walk upright, thus freeing forelimbs for manipulation and growing new fingers above the vestigial digits of their ancestors.

Stirling's cannibals have not degenerated that far yet but, if they lose speech entirely, then they will no longer be human.

11 comments:

Sean M. Brooks said...

Hi, Paul!

An interesting, very alarming idea of Stirling's, that habitual and widespread cannibalism not only leads to savagery but also may cause cannibals to lose the ability to speak and use fire, to lose their very humanity. To no longer be even degraded humans, but mere animals.

There was one huge exception to that rule, however, the Russian Empire! The Russians too practiced cannibalism but were not "bone thru the nose" savages. And they certainly had not lost the ability to speak and use fire. Or to use high technology. What was the factor which made it so different for them? The worship of Satan and rationalization of human sacrifices to him as merely a disposing, in an efficient way, of the sacrificial "animals"? But, Satan, of course, would take JOY in the folly of humans adoring him as a god and sacrificing other humans to him.

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
Also, the Russian aristocrats ate their subjects, not each other.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Hi, Paul!

A good point! I remember how Count Ignatieff reminiscently recalled the pleasure he took in eating a human infant (Yuck!!!). So, I think it's very likely the top elite groups in the Russian Empire, or perhaps all "initiated" worshipers of Satan would be off limits to each other as "food."

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
Yes. That is how they maintained trust in each other.
Paul.

Sean M. Brooks said...

Hi, Paul!

Yes, I think I see what you and Stirling mean, without SOME trust no society worthy of that name is possible. So there has to be some limits to savagery and barbarity, even within a Russian Empire worshiping Satan. Ugh, even the old USSR would be a bit better better than that!

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
Even Nazis had to cooperate to exterminate Jews. A society in which every order was disobeyed, every utterance was a lie, every law was broken, every acolyte stabbed every high priest in the back, no promise was ever kept etc would not be a society. It is a contradiction in terms, a reductio ad absurdo.
Paul.

Paul Shackley said...

...and someone might spot an error in my Latin?

Sean M. Brooks said...

Hi, Paul!

I agree! Sheer NECESSITY alone makes it imperative for people to have some trust and confidence in each other. But I would stipulate that, even so, it was mentioned how high was the level of fear and distrust in the Russian Empire of THE PESHAWAR LANCERS. Or, for that matter, the USSR of our timeline (with its secret police and ubiquitous networks of informers).

Sean

Sean M. Brooks said...

Hi, Paul!

I usually see the bit of Latin you quoted spelt as "reductio ad absurdum."

Sean

Paul Shackley said...

Correct!

Paul Shackley said...

Sean,
Right. Human society is so contradictory, both creative and destructive.
Paul.